Hypersprint topic

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Hypersprint topic

Postby artie on edge » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:47 pm

Why was the "what happened to the hypersprint" topic locked?
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Postby Beelzeboss » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:06 pm

Probably because everyone knows what happened to the hypersprint ;)

I don't know
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Postby Dramatica » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:23 am

Thats right. If the guys would like to start talking about that other POS they can do so in the appropriate thread. That thread was going no where.
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Postby artie on edge » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:19 am

Ok, was just surprised that it was locked without an explanation or coment from the site admin.

Seemed a bit socialist.. in a way...

From my point of view though... (just on the off chance that any one is indeed interested), the Hypersprint is what originally drew me to contact the Edge team. Once I had made contact, Tony was very clear on why it had been replaced by the Cuda, however....

The hypersprint is a very horny looking machine, even if the Cuda is a much more effective unit.. I think people will be asking questions about it for a long time to come... :?: :?: :?: :D
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Postby Tony » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:53 am

Didn't know the topic was locked.

One day I may pursue the Hypersprint suspension concept again.

To have lots of suspension travel you need very short stiff shocks.
This means custom built dampers to handle the ultra stiff springs, (like an F1 car has).

The compromise is: the more suspension travel required the longer the bellcranks need to be & thus the more flex the bellcrank has to put up with.
Or, use ultra high bellcrank/rocker ratios, which means shocks that have to have incredible damper stiffness.
The engineering problems that occur is that for every 100mm of wheel travel the damper may only move 20mm, so the valving becomes very restrictive.
Controlling 50mm of wheel travel with only 10mm of shock movement etc becomes tricky.

There are good points & bad, compromise like any engineering design.
Good points are reduced un-sprung weight, less heat build up in the shocks due to less friction, shocks that weigh less, better packaging & positioning of shocks, feeding suspension forces into the chassis in more advantageous directions & thus making a stiffer lighter chassis.
Bad points being: difficult to achieve lots of travel without compromise, expecting a lot of control from a damper that hardly moves.

Formula one solved some of the damper issues by ditching coil-overs & using separate shocks & springs.
A very smart idea as it’s difficult/compromise to tune a damper to control the spring if they both have the same stroke ratio.
So now they use torsion springs & separate bellcrank mounted dampers.
This way there is much more damper stroke than spring stroke which equals better control of the springs oscillations/frequency.

The Ballistic version of pushrod suspension worked really well.
Set up as a two stage suspension where the pushrod is replaced with a soft shock, then a bellcrank pushing stiffer shocks.
Very tunable, lots of wheel travel, reduces shock heat, feeds at least 50% of the suspension loadings lengthways into the chassis.
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Postby buggyboy » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:31 pm

Just courous will EDGE sell the plans anyway? Be kind of cool to build one.
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Postby Tony » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:49 pm

No.
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Postby sloky » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:55 pm

are parts still available ? ive got some old plans for it lying around somewhere
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Postby Tony » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:01 pm

Sorry, we have stopped making Hypersprint parts.
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Postby Enigmatic » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:59 am

ok you stoped makeing the hypersprint coz the cuda is better so will you stop selling the raven coz the fun cart is better and stop selling the fun cart coz the trax is better and the trax coz the taipan is better and the taipan coz the sidewinder is better and the sidewinder coz the piranha is better and the piranha coz the barracuda is better?
Out of all the things i have lost i miss my mind the most

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Postby Beelzeboss » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:18 am

But the Hypersprint and Cuda were in the same price bracket... I think
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Postby chrishallett83 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:11 pm

Enigmatic wrote:ok you stoped makeing the hypersprint coz the cuda is better so will you stop selling the raven coz the fun cart is better and stop selling the fun cart coz the trax is better and the trax coz the taipan is better and the taipan coz the sidewinder is better and the sidewinder coz the piranha is better and the piranha coz the barracuda is better?


By that train of logic, every car manufacturer ever should immediately stop building cars because Bugatti built the Veyron. Different karts/buggies for different budgets and purposes. A 5 year old kid wouldn't be able to drive a 200 horsepower Barracuda, would they? And a full grown man would get a bit bored with a 3.5 horsepower Raven, wouldn't he?

Be reasonable. The reason the Hypersprint was discontinued is the same reason Ford stopped importing the old Taurus. It was competing in the same bracket and price range as the Falcon, yet it was inferior by design. The Barracuda performs better than the Hypersprint, and is cheaper to build to boot.
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Postby David Reid » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:48 pm

You tell em Chris!! Ha ha ha.....
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Postby buggyboy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:05 pm

Anyone have the hypersprint plans they wanta sell?
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Postby chrishallett83 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:04 pm

Even if you got hold of some second-hand plans, the plans do not show how to make the suspension modules. And The Edge Products does not make them anymore. So you'd end up with a chassis but nothing else.
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Postby artie on edge » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:20 am

I dont know exactly what the legalities are BUT I know you can resell any printed item you own, providing you are NOT claiming it to be your intellectual property. This does not (to the best of my knowledge) allow you to actually build the chassis from the second hand plan set, legally. The plans allow one chassis to be built from one set of plans purchased from the copy right holder (in this case Tony).

Tony, does Edges current postition of not producing parts or support for this chassis allow the plans to be used by others? Thats the only 'out' or loophole I can see for their future use.

If somebody was requesting to buy plans for a 'current' or supported Edge model I personally would be jumping all over them... Simply not done, morally or legally.

IMO. :D

Another point on teh plans not containing the suspension set up... again imo, if you can build a buggy, surely you can devise a suspension system.... of sorts...
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Postby tenaja » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:22 pm

IIRC, Tony recently said his plans are just like any other book... don't copy it and sell it, but do what you want with the original. Use it, then pass it on.

BTW, I've got a Hypersprint that I'm considering on upgrading to the new 'Cuda suspension. I'd be willing to sell my suspension modules for the cost of the equivalent 'Cuda parts. (Original price was about $4800.) I'm in CA, so they'd have to be shipped...
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Postby Stevo the Devo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:09 am

Hi guys, The SEQMBC meet at killkivan over easter and had a hypersprint owened by tracy at the meet. this was an ex paul morris garage build ( V8 Supercar )
From the time it turned up on the trailer I was interested. It was rough and ready, and had some major adjustment to the suspension, but Tracey drove this thing so well on our interesting track.
His first coment was " I'm to scared to put it into third gear ( VTR 1000) "
He cosistantly layed down track times equalling the best Pirahnas all be it within 5 seconds ( for the record he did a 4:12:50)
This thing handled and drove exeptionally, to the point, that if it was going for the right price, I'd have a look at buying it.
I was admittedly turned of by the internal shock system ala formula ford style but it handled our technical course very well. It looked clean and sharp in cornering, and I would like to see more around.

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Postby rossco » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:21 am

Stevo the Devo wrote:
In the words of 10cc " Thats the way, I Like it Ahuh ahuh"



LOL! that aint a 10CC song. Wasnt it KC and the sunshine band.

The hypersprint looks unusual doesnt it. From the front anyway, like a hexagon on wheels. I still like it but for its innovation.
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Postby Stevo the Devo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:31 am

I bloody new it was KC and the sunshine band but I'm up to my 8th wine for the night. All jokes aside It is a hexagon on wheels, and it does look like its missing something but ......It's not.... Its not missing a damn thing. If anything to see this buggy of tracys do a 4:12 on a 4.7kM track with no race experience or knowledge of the track... And to incorporate F3 and F ford technology, to me is briliant.
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